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12/16/2009
1:29:20 PM
| Johnny B.
Thanks so much for that John B.
YAH !!!!
Way to go! for sures!
I totally agree!
Gods richest blessings to you my brother,
Pammie Mae | JohnB
12/10/2009
10:59:34 PM
| Pam,
The ahah! moment was the realization that it is calcium that provides major structural crosslinks to the biofilm mass. By targeting the calcium and removing it, the structural integrity of the biofilm mass may be compromised, making the job of the proteoloytic enzymes easier and exposing pathogens to immune cells and/or antimicrobials. | Pamela Mae
12/10/2009
2:47:14 PM
| Johnny B!
Glad that now you have awoken - I think? ;-)
Haa haa now I have gone silent. Thinking thinking.
This is wonderful thought though and it truly is a
gift from God.
It is also so amazing to me that by just shifting how we dose things(take what with what) how much of a difference it can make in healing.
And how important times between even natural supplements matter.
It is as it was discovered by the leader of the pack,the arnery rascal himself- mel man.
That one of the keys is how and when we take things.
So simple but so amazing.
I promise to re-read your article above again and maybe 2x more.
Thanks for clarifying in vivo and in vitro.
Blessings,
Pammie Mae | johnb
12/10/2009
10:01:45 AM
| I'm back...Good Morning!
Think of EDTA as a tiny protein based magnet that binds metal ions. It is known as a 'chelator' because it binds metals to a protein carrier so they can be excreted. The heavier the metal, the more attracted EDTA is to it... so when you introduce EDTA into the body, it will bind to the first metal ion it comes into contact with (usually calcium). If that bound EDTA is not excreted before coming across a heavier metal, it will exchange the lighter for a heavier (i.e.- magnesium for calcium, calcium for zinc, zinc for cadmium, cadmium for lead).
This is how chelation therapy works to reduce the burden of toxic heavy metals on the body. It is quite effective, especially when administered through IV, but oral administration works well too...it just takes longer.
As you might suspect, chelation has a drawback if not handled appropriately; it can deplete the body of critically needed minerals like copper,zinc and selenium when EDTA molecules get bound to the lighter minerals and then excreted before encountering a heavy metal.
Therefore, advanced practitioners who perform chelation therapy often give supplemental minerals to offset or prevent that problem... especially with extended therapy.
In this case, the EDTA being used in the anti-biofilm protocol you mentioned is targeting not heavy metals, but calcium... or at least it should be.
Calcium is very likely the principal culprit in the formation of biofilms as far as minerals are concerned. It is by far the most available mineral in the tissues of unhealthy people. Keep in mind that 98% of the body's calcium is supposed to be in the teeth and bones, but such is not the case with Americans... with our stress filled lifestyles and acidifying diet.
Indeed, calcification in general is one of the underlying issues that accelerates aging and many of our degenerate disease processes... from heart disease to osteoporosis to hormonal dysfunction.
Now you get your question answered... "Why is he telling us all of this?"
Because I believe that we are witnessing a major breakthrough when it comes to dealing with highly resistant infection secondary to biofilm production!
To target biofilms, you need a way to target and remove calcium accumulations in the soft tissues and deliver highly specific enzymes that work synergistically to break down the biofilm structural components. Antimicrobials and probiotics can then be used if necessary to assist the body's natural defenses in dealing with the newly exposed pathogens.
Magnesium EDTA does readily target and bind calcium, but its built in affinity for heavier metals makes it a somewhat inefficient vehicle, with the added drawback of depleting other essential minerals.
So what if we had a product that is designed to target calcium in the soft tissues and not excrete it, but put it back into the bone where it belongs? What if this product didn't deplete anything, but rather it contained all of the other essential bone assimilation minerals and nutrients? What if this product was designed to correct the most common fundamental mineral imbalance (which by the way is likely one of the greatest contributors to biofilms) in most of us (cal/mag) while reducing inflammation and fueling energy production in every cell of the body?
I am incredibly humbled, but also very excited to inform you that most of you are already taking it! It is called MagnifiCal.
Once again, I give thanks to God for the revelations involved with the birthing of MagnifiCal, and may all whose lives are transformed by it bring honor and glory to Him. | johnb
12/10/2009
12:08:52 AM
| Hi Pamela,
Sorry about the confusion... in vitro means in a test tube or laboratory, and in vivo means in the body.
It is a very straightforward proposition to degrade a lab simulated biofilm in a confined environment like a test tube, but quite another to take an oral preparation that will seek out and destroy pathogenic biofilms in the body.
Or at least that was what I thought until this morning...
As you pointed out, I got very quiet when we were discussing the use of EDTA in conjunction with the use of specialized anti-biofilm enzymes because as I explained to you, my understanding of how EDTA works does not support the rationale being used to explain how the product is designed to work... unless one particular form of EDTA is used in conjunction with the enzymes(the form was not specified on the website).
If that particular form (Magnesium EDTA) is being used, then it could in my opinion possibly contribute to degradation of pathogenic biofilms.
To be continued tomorrow when I can stay awake... | Mel
12/9/2009
3:11:42 PM
| HIYA GUYS AND GIRLS,
Welcome as always;
WOW am I glad I'm better!
this is terrific information maybe a little over my head, but nontheless one of you will, more than likely come back and explain it in a way we all can understand it better.
We are truly learning more and more as a group, Ahha!
"THE SUM OF THE PARTS"
God bless all; who contibute good information,
MEL | Pammie Mae
12/9/2009
3:03:06 AM
| Hi John B,
With deepest respect, your post is making me late to bed and I am going to get in real trouble.
I have to respond because my curious mind will not let me sleep now.
First I had to look up your terms (because I am missing some of your grey matter in my feeble brain)
The meaning of:
*in vi tro
outside the living body and in an artificial environment
*in vi vo
: in the living body of a plant or animal
So I think what you are saying is 'outside the human body' would be 'I.V. Treatment of edta?
Inside would be through capsules of edta taken internally?
I will share the diagram my doctor drew for me and share the discussion which I think you will find fascinating.
The EDTA product (simplistically put) is thought to penetrate the Bio-film and poke substantial holes in it. Thus allowing the antibiotic to get in and kill germs.
Then allowing the Pro-biotic to get through and re build the wall of the intestine back to good health.
The theory also is the edta formula should be taken away from minerals(know that will make you go silent John B. :-))
Taking edta way from minerals much like spacing the Pro biotic and the antibiotic.
But - OF COURSE replacing the minerals to the body as we do the Pro biotics while using the anti biotics.
Opened up stuff didn't I?
Now I am late to sleep...nite
God Bless,
Pammie Mae
I'll share the diagram..for reals :-) | pamela mae
12/9/2009
2:42:23 AM
| Hey Deb#2,
Welcome,and wish it was my smart info.but alas it's some brainy research persons.
I am just a reader of interesting'stuff',and a listener to my doctor.
I do know that'specific' Pro-biotics are recomended. What suprised me is that some Pro-biotics are not recomended when your test shows certain findings.
I was told by a practitioner that I should not take any Pro-Biotics with FOS. This strain of Pro biotic would encourage one of the bacterias or fungus(sorry can't remember which one)to grow in my particular case.
So even in the case of using the wonderful Pro-biotics its best to heed mel the mans advice and have the docs tell which do what.
Also being aware that Pro-biotics often come in combos and may have other ingredients besides Pro-biotics in them.
So it seems we have all aquired new occupations :
*taking supplements and our protocol
*reading labels
* * oh,and listening to Doctors advice
Blessings my friend,
Pammie Mae | John B
12/9/2009
12:11:58 AM
| L-glutamine can accelerate the healing process in the intestinal lining, but some practitioners like to get any yeast issues under control before introducing the glutamine.
We do always offer the glutamine first before moving into the more complex whey protein... but there is no finer protein source on the planet.
99% of the negative feedback you hear about whey is referring to whey concentrate, not isolate... totally different results. You might want to give it a try when the time comes.
I have been wrestling with the biofilm issue for some time now, and I have not yet connected all the dots. Granted, scientific understanding of the intricate nature of biofilms is still quite limited. Much of it is still theoretical.
We know they exist... not only with pathogenic species, but even beneficial strains of flora tend to gather en mass and attach themselves to mucosal membranes. We don't know how they induce genetic shifts in constituent organisms that can dramatically alter their resistance as a whole.
The biofilms of concern are those resulting from the synergistic work of pathogens aimed at reducing exposure to antimicrobials and natural immunity.
The concept of using specialized proteolytic enzymes to break down the infrastructure of a biofilm in order to better expose pathogens to natural defenses and to prescribed antimicrobials is a fantastic idea.
Combining those enzymes with EDTA might well enhance the degradation of a biofilm in a tightly controlled (in vitro) environment (which is indeed the case with all the studies behind their anti-biofilm product), but for the life of me, I cannot fathom how the product would effectively target in vivo biofilms.
However, just because I don't understand how a particular product works doesn't mean that it doesn't work. I hope it does work. If so, that product will be a major breakthrough for Morgellons patients... and many others for that matter.
We shall see...
Hopeful in Atlanta,
John | Deb2
12/8/2009
8:01:19 PM
| Id,
I meant to tell you that if you do get diarrhea, take charcoal capsules between meals. M doctor recommended this to me and it works. | Deb2
12/8/2009
7:53:11 PM
| John B.
thank you for putting in writing what I have been somewhat thinking. My detox was like being in a horror movie, I will not go into details. but I keep thinking/hoping that once this crud is through my system, I will start to gain some weight. Do yo recommend the L-glutamine before detox has been completed? The whey protein is a bit of a problem for me still, do you think that once I am done detoxing the whey protein will work for me? | johnb
12/8/2009
3:37:23 PM
| Hi Ladies,
The weight issue is complicated.
Compromised digestion certainly appears to be a common factor in the Morgellons community, as is chronic toxicity and hormonal imbalance due to xenoestrogen exposure (fungal mycotoxins, chemical exposures, etc.), and thyroid suppression.
In the beginning, thyroid suppression might tend to promote energy loss and weight gain, but the combination of progressive malabsorption and parasitic infestation could certainly play a role in reducing weight over time, as well as making it very difficult to gain weight.
Losing weight releases toxins into the body that were previously isolated or stored in the fat, placing an additional burden on the body's detoxification systems.
Fortunately, restoring integrity to the bioterrain and to the digestive process will eventually reverse all those dynamics, promoting normal hormonal function and once again enabling efficient nutrient absorption and weight gain.
L-glutamine can be useful for rebuilding the lining of the gut. Once the primary goals of restoring digestion and bioterrain integrity have been met, whey protein isolate can be helpful for healthy weight gain.
Is that clear as mud? | Deb2
12/8/2009
10:24:49 AM
| Wow Pamela,
That was some interesting info. Alot for my non-medical mind to process, but makes alot of sense. I will bring this up with my doctor. After getting my test results back, I felt that the pro-biotics could be a major factor in curing this disease. I have also noticed that there are many pro-biotics out there and all have different ingredients, so what is one to do with that?
I believe we are the "old coots" with this disease and so if we can get cured, anyone can get cured if they do the right things. I am now relying heavily on my test results to get better.
Thank you for all your help! | Pamela Mae
12/8/2009
1:38:00 AM
| Hey Deb#2,
Hello, the thought we once discussed was that,you and I have had this the longest of probably any one I have talked to yet.
I think you would agree that we have one leg to go on beating this.
My thought would be perhaps you are healing in layers,and that would be the thought here for what it is worth.
I have included from my site a little blurb or insight on Bio--film.
I by no means think I know very much or am brainy,it just seems right.
We haven't gotten far enough into this to not say maybe something is hiding in one of the little curves in the colon area?
Article and blurg on Bio film
Biofilms can contain many different types of microorganism, e.g. bacteria, archaea, protozoa, fungi and algae; each group performing specialized metabolic functions. However, some organisms will form monospecies films under certain conditions.
Researchers from the Helmholtz Center for Infection Research have investigated the strategies used by biofilms. They discovered that biofilm bacteria apply chemical weapons in order to defend themselves against disinfectants and antibiotics, phagocytes and our immune system.
The lead researcher, Dr. Carsten Matz, began a serious investigation in order to find why phagocytes cannot annihilate the biofilm bacteria. He analyzed the marine bacteria, which defend themselves against the amoebae, the behavior of which copies the behavior of phagocytes.
The amoebae behave in the sea just like the immune cells in human body: they search for and feed on the bacteria. When bacteria are alone and separated in the water, they become an easy catch for the attackers. However, when they attach to a surface and join other bacteria, the amoebae cannot assault them.
The researcher stated that biofilms may be seen as a source of new bioactive agents. When bacteria are organized in biofilms, they produce effective substances which individual bacteria are unable to produce alone.
Antibiotics do not penetrate polysaccharide matrix. Difficult to diagnosis and culture. Microbes impart genetic material to one another to maintain resistance. Highly resistant to both immunological and non-specific defense mechanisms of the body.
Natural Bacillus Thuringiensis (Non-GMO BT) is a gram-positive, spore-forming bacterium which during sporulation produces protein crystals.
It is characterized as a widespread insect pathogen and its insecticidal activity is attributed to the parasporal crystals.
The spores feed on natural intestinal flora then burst releasing protein toxin Crystalline protein damaging the gut. & Bio-pesticide BT (GMO)goes beyond traditional cross breeding techniques and exchanges traits of plants, animals and bacteria.
You know Deb after re reading this -let me know your thoughts okay?
It seems to me that it is the layers of morgellons growth, the diseased condition of the lining in the intestine,and that the antibiotic kills maybe only surface bugs,then the prob biotic is also not getting through,could all be my contributing factors.
I get a picture of my intestinal (loops) having some little crevices that are covered.
And I get a picture of my intestine and the antibiotic killing surface bugs and the interior ones brewing and needing help for the final phase of healing.
I was told to use the Interase plus or an appropriately combined edta and that it will for me supposedly penetrate the layers once again.
Then for me I was told that the appropriate antibiotic for me used in the correct distance from a pro biotic would both kill bugs and heal the lining.
We will see.
Blessing take care,
Pamela mae | Gina
12/7/2009
7:53:42 PM
| I just thought I would comment on the weight loss...My kids haven't lost any weight! I give them probiotics, fresh garlic, MMS (drinks and bathing), and cod liver oil. My little boy looks like he kicked this already! Praise the LORD!
I lost weight, but most of it before I started the protocol...due to depression and fear...lost my appetite. I don't have a hearty appetite now, so am just mainitaining my weight (but I also stopped nursing the two year old right when this started, so that may have an effect on my appetite too). I love being on this protocol...I feel healthier than ever! My skin is clearing up SLOWLY...and my crawling sensations are much less...but still occur when I get into bed (some nights only). Does anyone know what this is (are they crawling out of our pores or coming from the bed or nightclothes?) My little girl was so tormented with this last night that she kept tossing and turning and crying. Finally, I sprayed her with the enzyme cleaner and she slept. But her stool is finally clear of the black specks!!!! MMS is what I attribute this to! I am so happy to have found all of you! I can't imagaine what would have happened if I hadn't. The Lord answered my prayer for hope by bringing this into my search engine. | Deb2
12/7/2009
3:16:49 PM
| Hi Pamela,
thank yu for worrying, but no need. I am so much better than I was 3 months ago. I am just getting altille frustrated because I want this to be over with (as I know we all do) cause I have had this so long.
Your bio film info is interesting, I will hopefully remember to bring this up with my doctor. If the bio film situation is correct, then why did I get so much better being on the medications if it can't break thru?
Just some thoughts. | Pamela Mae
12/7/2009
2:53:15 AM
| Deb** and Robin,
Deb,I will also be so excited for you to see the Great Plains Doctor.
Deb ** sooner than later,please girlfriend,you are worrying me.
The general idea is that with Morgellons,the bacteria that is forming causes what is called a Bio-film.
The picture is that the Bacteria form instead of 'One mean little Bacteria' several who have joined together,(kind of like a linked fence) Then the bacterias grow under this film which serves as a shield for them and your pro biotics,and medicines have a hard time penetrating.
It is my thought that the morgellons does this to the body systems.as well so blood work by Great Plains wouldn't hurt as well.
Deb**I'm so pleased when I hear anyone is going to 'specifically' a Great Plains recomended Doctor.
Why?
*The one I went to knew how to read the tests,kneow how to condense and target what I was and then should be taking.
*The one I went to knew how to agressively regroup my plan for attack.
I am very encouraged and believe this to be the next step.
Since you are two of my favorite people, it is my hope you both will soon be doing the happy dance and well.
Blessings
Pamela Mae | Robin
12/6/2009
3:05:24 PM
| I'll be looking forward to your post after you see your doctor. I know in the studies most gain weight. When I read that I was thinking it was a typo. Our bodies are so taxed and struggling, I don't see gaining weight a possibility. | Deb2
12/6/2009
9:15:04 AM
| I have to agree with the absorption thing. Something is stopping or bodies from keeping body fat. When I lost the weight, it came off REALLY fast, so something is wrong, but I don't know what.
Hopefully we can figur this out. I have a doctor's appoitn at the end of the month. We'll see what he says. | Robin
12/5/2009
1:22:36 PM
| I too am losing weight. I am 5'8" and now 122 lbs.
I was 146 last April when this started. In my opinion, I don't think it is what we are eating. I think it is a lack of absorption thing. I eat as much as I did when I was gaining weight. Some sort of intolerance thing which prevents our food from being processed naturally. | LD
12/4/2009
4:01:21 AM
| Oh, forgot to add that this morning I decided to add organic peanut butter to my oatmeal and it tasted pretty good. I had been adding almonds or walnuts also. | ld
12/4/2009
3:57:41 AM
| Thanks Deb 2,
I have thought about a protein shake but didn't know what to mix it with. My daughter gave me some of that Hemp stuff but I didn't know if it was okay to use so guess I will try it. I didn't like the taste but it's not bad compared to MMS. I think Morgies like all the stuff we like and hate all the stuff we hate.
In my readings I think I read something about staying away from whey while fighting this but after it would be good. (have read so much, that it's hard to keep straight where the sources come from.
Another thing is that I drink so much water with all the vitmins and meds that I get diarreha. I've never drank so much water in my life. Thanks again Deb for the reply. Linda | Deb2
12/3/2009
9:52:41 AM
| I forgot to mention the vision. Yes, I had vision problems, but they are pretty much gone now. | Deb2
12/3/2009
9:51:19 AM
| Hi ID,
I am still struggleing with the weight gain issue. I believe that becase I am still detoxing (because I've had this for 5 + yrs) that it will be difficult to gain weight until I am done with this.
But here are a couple of things I am eating to try and help. Greek yogurt with granola, ground flax seed and cinnamon. I also try to drink a protein shake with either whey protein or hemp (sometimes I get indigestion with the whey protein). I was also told to eat more meals (more than 3 per day) and to eat alittle bit more after I feel full. My problem is that I was NEVER a big eater and was never really over weight. It is a definite challenge because we are trying to stay away from sugar and junk food.
It's tough to gain, but I do think that once this is over it will come back slowly.
If anyone else has some ideas, would love to hear them. | ld **
12/2/2009
5:38:42 PM | Wanted to know what you did for gaining weight since dealing with morgies? I was at my ideal weight (sometimes have gone 10# below) when this thing started (Sept) I have lost 20# so really can't afford to loose much more.
Also wondering if you had affected vision and if so what did you do for that? | | |
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